CPRR Promontory photos [Hart 343-350]
I am working on the photographs from Promontory and have hit a bit of a snag with which I am hoping the folks on the CPRR Discussion Group can help me.
After Promontory (June 2, I believe), Crocker purchased 21 negatives from Hart (the last CPRR purchase of negatives). This would presumably be Hart numbers 344-364. This would seem to be right, except that 343 seems that it should be included as well.
So that's the first question – is the train in 343 (in Argenta) the same train that appears in 344-350 (in Carlin, Elko, Peko, and Camp Victory – it seems clear that it's not the same train as in 349 – "Scene near Deeth")?
If it is the same train, then there is a second question. Bob Spude has been a great help to me as I try to sort these things out and he pointed out that the locomotive in 343 does not appear to be the Jupiter. Given the sequence at the end of the CPRR series it's hard to believe that the train in #343-350 isn't headed to Promontory. So the question is, which locomotive is it in 343? ... and is it pulling Stanford's special train? I noted that Leslie's account of the ceremonies (5 June 1869 – presumed to authored by by Russell) says that one CP train arrives at Promontory at 8:45am on May 10, then Stanford's arrives about 11:00. Could there have been two trains that left Sacramento – Stanford's and the one on which Hart rode and photographed in #343-350?
—Glenn
posted from CPRR Discussion Group at 1:36 PM
6 Comments:
Have you checked the first hand account of the trip from Sacramento to Promontory?:
"The Last Tie" by Dr. J.D.B. Stillman, Overland Monthly, July, 1869.
From: "Glenn Willumson" Gwillumson@arts.ufl.edu
I have read Stillman's account and it seems pretty clear that he rode with Stanford. He mentions Hart being on the side trip to Ogden on May 8 but doesn't say anything else about photography on the way out or whether Hart was on Stanford's train (although other accounts have always assumed he was "with Stanford's special train").
—Glenn
From: "James Mark French" fireside31298@sbcglobal.net
I have for years been arguing that this is the same train in all these photos to no avail. What everyone seems to forget is that standard operating practice for railroads of that period dictated that locomotives had to changed every 100 miles. The idea was that the locomotive had to be shopped at those intervels. If you look at a map of the CPRR you notice that all major shop facilities were spaced every 100 miles or close to it. The locations in these photos indicate that the locomotives were change at these locations since they were towns with major shops, spaced about 100 miles apart! (There is one other photo I know of showing this train at Elko with a Danforth L&M 2-6-0 on the point!)
These are also the very photos that I argue the point that the Jupiter was NOT put on at Wadsworth as the history books say it was. I am of the opinion that the Jupiter being a relatively new locomotive would have been sent to the end of track (Elko to Promontory) at the time to relieve older locomotives in desperate need of overhauling. Here again if the CPRR held to the rule that dictated that locomotive should be changed every 100 miles, and they did, then the Jupiter, even if it was placed on the train at Wadsworth would have been pulled off at Argenta! Several people have told me a of a record that states the Jupiter was attached at Wadsworth. I have never seen this record. I personally believe the Jupiter was at that time farther east of Wadsworth and was attached to what was left of the train – Gov. Stanford's private cars and the water car – at Elko.
Take it for what it's worth but that's what I perceive those photos to be of. I photographic journal of the special train heading to Promontory Point for the driving of the Gold spike. Remember that Crocker bought the photos June 2nd. That was too far removed from the date of the driving of the Gold Spike on May 10th.
—Mark French
From: KyleWyatt@aol.com
Generally I'll agree with Mark French's observations that locos were typically changed at every division point, suggesting that the Jupiter had not been the road engine from either Reno or Wadsworth (the two common change points I've come across).
Unfortunately, "The Last Tie" by Dr. J.D.B. Stillman, Overland Monthly, July, 1869, sheds no light on the subject (at least in the quick review I made). He does note that most passengers left at Elko – but certainly does not suggest that the passenger train terminated there. So it is unclear just where the special shed its regular passenger cars.
On the other hand, we know that there were other CP passenger trains that went to Promontory with people for the event – at least from eastern Nevada towns.
Now to the stereos.
There are some clear differences in the train consist among the images. #343 shows a consist with two head end cars, an arch roof coach, a clerestory coach, another arch roof coach, then the two special cars. What we can see in #344 and #345 appears consistant with that. #346 and #347 are a little more ambiguous. The loco in #343 is clearly not a Schenectady like the Jupiter.
#348 and the variant of #349 that shows the whole train appears to have a different consist. There is a boxcar converted into a caboose (note bench on roof), a combine, and at least two coaches, all arch roofed. In #349 there is something coupled behind the second coach, but the print I have is cropped too close to tell what kind of car. From another source, I have a note that the variant of #349 that is a closeup of the loco has been identified as sister #63 (not the Jupiter which was #60).
My conclusion is that they are different trains, but perhaps traveling "together" and the Jupiter was a "late" addition, not the motive power across most of Nevada.
—Kyle
From: "Kevin Bunker" mikadobear45@yahoo.com
If I recall correctly, in April and May 1869, all of the newly received Schenectady 4-4-0s – 57, 58, 59 and 60 – were quickly sent east from Sacramento after setup to Eastern Nevada; certainly Whirlwind and Jupiter were at Promontory, and presumably Leviathan and its running mate turned there, too, or perhaps at Terrace, U.T.
—KVB
See the additional discussion.
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